Heroic Archimonde Strategy Discussion

Phailure

Council Member
#1
I thought I would open a thread to have a collaborative discussion on tweaks we can make to our strategy and execution on Heroic Archimonde. I like to start out by saying I felt we did extremely well last night. Even though we didn't get the kill we were all hoping for we made significant progress and are much closer than we were at the beginning of the night. I'd also like to give a big shout out to Marcus. He did a great job with the call outs last night.


I spent a sometime this morning reviewing our logs and some kill logs in the same raid size and ilvl range. Overall our DPS looks to be in the right ball park. It's hard to do direct comparisons as we have few attempts without earlier deaths. However the majority of our DPSers are doing numbers on most attempts that would not look out of place in a kill log.


In terms of P1 and P2 we are very close to achieving the consistency we need in those phases. The only change I want to make is setting some guidelines around solo soaking Shadowfel burst.

1) Do not attempt to solo soak unless you are the only one being knocked up. Even if the other player is capable you can't be sure they have the required CD available.

2) Do not assume that someone will solo soak because their class is capable. Assume you need to soak until you hear it called over TS.


The main change I am contemplating is in how we transition from P3 to P4. I'm thinking we should hold DPS 3-4% before the transition and wait for team 2 to come out of the twisting nether. This would allow us to have the whole raid available for the first set of infernal. Since we won't need as many DPS on the outside we could possibly overload that team with an extra healer and some DPS (might be a bad idea due to debuff, need more research).


If anyone has any other thoughts please share them.
 
#2
I agree. By the end of the night it wasn't so much about getting to p4, but how do we survive the transition. I was going to try and watch some videos this weekend and see how others handled it. Definitely a lot more intense than in normal mode.

Can't speak for the other healers, but I know once meteors started dropping the raid was quickly out of range of me. I don't know if it would be possible to set up a rally point of sorts so people can get healed? Pretty sure the impact area is rng, but that was a challenge for me. Just trying to chase people to get heals out.
 

Serrene

Active Member
#3
Definite props to Marcus, those calls were spot-on.

The idea of slowing dps right before the transition seems to be a commonly successful one for other guilds, definitely worth a shot for us. The infernals will die a lot quicker with everyone available plus it solves the question of when exactly to hero, and we can mostly just burn the crap out of the boss at that point.

Regarding Shadowfel Burst, have many of our untimely early deaths been due to that? From my limited vantage point it seemed like we were often getting more than one person tossed up, which to my knowledge shouldn't happen if everyone is spread out, so that could just be a matter of paying better attention to the DBM range indicator (or manually creating one if it isn't there already). I can always run over there with an emergency smoke bomb but I'd rather not have to burn that on mostly-avoidable damage.
 

Phailure

Council Member
#4
@Critcool I Agree that we need to come up with some kind of strategy for positioning. I'm not sure if marking a person or flags is the best approach. I should have lots of time to do some research over the weekend. more to come.

@Serrene Spreading is the bigger issue for sure. The fixes suggested are just easy things that would have saved us a death or two last night. Harder to figure out adjustments to get people to spread better.
 

Serrene

Active Member
#5
Can't speak for the other healers, but I know once meteors started dropping the raid was quickly out of range of me. I don't know if it would be possible to set up a rally point of sorts so people can get healed? Pretty sure the impact area is rng, but that was a challenge for me. Just trying to chase people to get heals out.
I wondered about this, it seemed like we all got chunked pretty hard when the meteors would come out. We might be all going into panic mode trying to avoid them all and spreading all across the map and out of heal range. I liked Pope's idea of running to newly created green circles, since there's a delay between when the impact point appears and when the meteor actually falls, so following the new ones should keep us out of harm's way. There won't be any way to avoid all of them, just have to survive until they quit dropping and then get back to business on the boss.
 

Marcus

Guild Master
#6
In terms of Sgadowfel burst. We MUST assume that we have to soak it UNLESS the person targeted calls for a solo soak, period. And we need a lot more people to soak it. We should not use cooldowns for it.
This is a great thread BTW.
Also, we had the same issue on Normal, we couldn't survive the transition to phse 4. Once we figure out that we need to use personals and maybe a devo or rally, its over.
Plus, I want to make sure that everybody targets doombringers in phase 4. They have little health and die easy.
That's the phase where clutch play trumps DPS.
 

DrLegend

Guild Master
#7
Maybe we need to swap healers during the Nether phases. Having Andrich and I out at all times during the regular phases would be a big help for raid healing.

What if we sent Crit in P1 and Zel in P2? That way we'll have Revival and Hymn for the transition phases. If we don't go into P4 topped off, it's going to be a real struggle?
 

Marcus

Guild Master
#8
That's actually not a bad idea. According to Fatboss they chain all healing cooldowns in the final phase. Personals and a revival durind meteors will ease up the transition.
 
#9
I agree with Legend, having him and Andrich available to make sure the raid is topped off before P4 would probably be more beneficial and definitely make that chaotic phase a little more manageable.
 

wigz

Active Member
#10
Do most guilds even send healers into the nether realm? I feel like if I save my CD's for the nether realm and have 1 extra dps instead of a healer we'd be fine.
 

Serrene

Active Member
#11
Threads like this make me giddy.
In terms of Sgadowfel burst. We MUST assume that we have to soak it UNLESS the person targeted calls for a solo soak, period. And we need a lot more people to soak it. We should not use cooldowns for it.
It would be especially nice to have those cooldowns available when we really need them, when having everyone soak would make the damage minimal without wasting defensives. I feel like we should plan on having as many people soak as possible no matter what.
 

Marcus

Guild Master
#12
Fatb
Do most guilds even send healers into the nether realm? I feel like if I save my CD's for the nether realm and have 1 extra dps instead of a healer we'd be fine.
Fatboss and most guides recommend a healer. We should take a look and see if guilds are doing it without one on heroic.
 
#13
Classes without a self heal get absolutely smashed in the nether because of the debuff you get while sitting in the nether realm. IMO cant be done without sending a healer in.
 

Phailure

Council Member
#14
I spent some time over the weekend opening random kill videos on Youtube and skipping to the transition to the last phase to see what everyone else was doing. A few observations:


1) The raid position is typcially static. Rather than running around frantically trying to avoid Rain of Chaos people are attempting to side step them where they can. Rain of Chaos damage is based on how close you are to the center of the impact. Looking at the logs it appears that unless to stand right in the middle the damage is pretty minimal. The average tick for our raid is only around 15K.


2) The transition timing should be based around the timing of Demonic Feedback and Chains. If possible the ideal seems to be to drop the boss to 26% , pop chains, push him over. We will see if we have the DPS discipline to do this.
 

Serrene

Active Member
#15
@Phailure Any particular video from where you want to mimic the strat? Did they use a general stack "zone" to keep close to or is it just a more condensed scramble?

One other thing I don't get about the meteor phase, is those green cracks on the ground. What are those and how badly do they need to be avoided?
 

Phailure

Council Member
#16
All I did was open random heroic kill videos on youtube, fast forwarded to about 5-6 minute mark, watched how they moved into the last phase, and then moved on to the next video.
 

Andrastie

Well-Known Member
#17
Random fact that I was able to confirm last Thursday, my beacon heals the tank even when he is banished. Don't think that changes much, but it's nice to know. I assume it works both ways, though I always save Devo for the first Rain of Chaos, since it always seems to hit with chains and/or shadow explosion(or whatever it is called).

Also, I am with Crit, range becomes an issue a little during the last phase. People scatter all over, though I try to find Unhunter, since he will be getting hit shit pushed in by an infernal!